The LinkedIn video opportunity is wide open for executives and leaders.
Learn how to build trust and elevate your brand in video on LinkedIn
in this episode of Closing Time.
Thanks for tuning in to Closing Time, the show for Go to Market Leaders.
I’m Val Riley, head of marketing for Insightly, Unbounce, and LeadsRx.
Today I am joined by Devin Reed.
He is CEO of Reeder, a marketing consulting and media company
and someone we have wanted to have on the show for quite some time,
so I’m glad to finally say hello and welcome Devin Reed.
Hello. And thank you for having me.
Okay, so your résumé reads like a who’s who of SaaS companies Gong, Clari, etc..
I’d like to use our time together to focus on how go to market leaders
can be harnessing the power of video, specifically on LinkedIn.
So given your experience and those major brands, what do you feel
like is the first step towards building a brand on LinkedIn as an executive?
The first
step, it would be to have a clear point of view
and to get your strategy together and then be ready to play the long game.
So I think the reason to kind of in that order is there is, as everyone says,
so much noise, on LinkedIn, which in all honesty, there’s like a billion users.
I think there’s like 700 million, English speaking users
and only 1 to 2% post, I think weekly.
Maybe it’s monthly, but the point is like it’s actually a very small amount.
So I like to lead with this
because if you’re hearing this and been like kicking the, you know,
LinkedIn down, the, you know, what is it kicking the the can down the road.
It’s only going to get more competitive.
So you might as well start now.
And so I say one is having a
point of view is the best way to differentiate yourself from day one.
So you don’t fall into the noise and the things that get scrolled by.
The second thing is having a clear strategy outline
that basically is, you know, going to map out
how are we going to use this. LinkedIn content to hit our personal
and business goals.. So it’s like super important.
I think a lot of people just say show up and post and good things will happen.
Sometimes that might be the case, but in a couple months
you’re going to look back and go, wait, why are we doing this?
And are we seeing results?
Is this good? Is this bad?
And that’s why a lot of programs get shelved.
And then the third is if you’re building a reputation,
whether it’s online or in person, it’s going to take time.
And so just commit to the long game.
No there’s going to be ups and downs.
You know, you’re both marketing to people,
but every time you post, you’re basically rolling the dice
and hoping the algorithm shows you some love that day.
So just be ready for the long haul.
And like, literally love the process of showing up, of writing
and ultimately of helping the people
you know that you want to, probably,. I’m guessing, sell to on the platform.
I think the strategy portion is super important because like you said,
maybe a few years ago, just regular posting might get you favorability
and follows.
But now you really there’s, there is so much noise that
thinking ahead of like what’s the overall presence
and what do I want to communicate as a theme.
And then writing posts that pick up on that theme really can set you apart
from those folks that are just kind of haphazardly getting stuff out there.
Yeah, absolutely.
little tactical question here.
Is there a recommended length or format
for video content on LinkedIn that seems to work?
Yeah.
So I was curious about this too, because a few months ago you might have
seen you open LinkedIn on your phone and there was that video feed.
Have you seen that down.
I have not.
No. okay.
Well then let me introduce you.
It should be on your phone if and if you’re listening, it should be there.
But basically what they did was introduce a TikTok like feed on the mobile app.
And so when I saw that, of course, my brain, you know what?
I’m flipping through it not just to consume, but like, this is a new feature.
I’m like. I’m like, what are they putting on this feed?
And then of course,. I started getting the questions like
how do you get picked up?
What is working, what’s not?
And so we did a little research where we looked at 250 videos on my feet
and a couple of other people’s feed
and really did basically find like ten different kind of like,
characteristics of videos that get picked up on the feed.
And of course, one of them was length, Val.
I was curious, you know, and so the data shows that between 1
and 2 minutes was the most successful.
And so again, that’s to be picked up on the,
I mean, to be picked up on the feed.
Not necessarily, you know, did that video hit their personal goal.
So obviously we don’t know that.
But I would say sub 90s on LinkedIn is that sweet spot.
It gives you enough time to, you know, present your hook, make your key points.
But you can kind of get in and out quickly because again, people are scrolling.
They’re in between meetings, right?
They don’t always have a ton of time to watch like a five, ten minute video.
That’s what YouTube is great for.
So I would say that’s where, the best spot is.
And I tried and almost never go over two minutes.
Okay.
So, when you initially asked your question, I said no.
But when you said TikTok-like, that’s when it struck me.
You’re talking about that little bar of videos that you can move through.
So, yeah, I have seen that.
And it is only on mobile, which is super interesting.
I guess that, speaks to where LinkedIn feels like
they can add more engagement, you know, on the phone versus on the desktop.
Yeah. 100%.
And also I mean LinkedIn you know, has
LinkedIn used to be the digital resume platform for professionals.
And over the last 2 or 3 years it has transferred into a true social
media platform.
And so if you look at all
the things they’re doing, the changes you’ve probably seen lately
that is to me like a social media platform kind of going through puberty, right?
They’re kind of figuring out who they’re going to be.
Should we be like TikTok?
Should we be like, you know, more old school LinkedIn?
So it makes it tricky to kind of keep up with what’s working.
But it also provides a lot of opportunity for the people who are paying attention
and staying, ahead of the curve.
You can kind of see where the platform is heading
and adjust your content, your strategy, accordingly.
I’ll.
I’ll quote a previous guest who I know you and I both know well, Aneesh Lal.
He’s, he’s calling LinkedIn the the digital watercooler of the world,
which I think is brilliant because it really is where, you know,
virtually where executives can just meet and talk
and engage with each other in a virtual manner.
So I told him he should trademark that.
He said he’s a very clever guy.
So we often hear that LinkedIn rewards certain types of content,
and obviously by reward means kind of like gets picked up with the algorithm.
Is it true that video is still the best or, you know,
does it really just depend on the content of the post?
I would say
despite what LinkedIn has said lately, video has been a little tricky
to get as much traction as kind of promised.
And I share that openly because I know a lot of people are,
you know, seeing and hearing video being picked up and then doing video
and not necessarily seeing the results that maybe they kind of anticipated.
So my my thought is, even if you get less views than a text post,
which by the way, I built my whole career on text post there the like highest ROI
because of the cheapest to make and they seem to have the highest,
like consumption rate.
And I think too is like most posts on LinkedIn
historically were text right image images and carousels.
It’s still very new.
Video is still incredibly new, like high quality video.
Whether you call that high entertainment value,
like a day in the life video or a highly produced video is still quite new.
So you also have to think like maybe
the consumption behavior hasn’t quite caught up.
You know what I mean?. So the text would be better.
And so I would say, even
if your videos aren’t getting as many views
as your text posts, don’t worry just about how many impressions you get.
Worry about the impression you make.
And on video, you can make a great impression.
You can hear my voice, my intonation.
You can’t see it.
But I’m talking with my hands a lot right now.
Like,
those are the things that kind of turn folks from passive followers into fans,
and then maybe even into clients, you know, depending if that’s your goal.
So I always say, hey, still mix in some video.
You know, it can be, high produced, it can be low polish doesn’t really matter.
But definitely mix some video in there.
To round out your content strategy.
So, drilling down a little bit more on video.
In terms of topics, is it like thought
leadership content that you would lean towards for an executive?
Is it semi promotional content where you’re talking about a category
or even a brand, or is there a line that you see
executives can walk pretty successfully there.
Yeah. It’s great question.
So, right now
I’m helping five different executives run their LinkedIn strategy and feed.
And the three posts I do,
you know, the most numbers in terms of both, like, views
and, you know, gets you followers and pretty much
all of the engagement metrics you would want.
The first is share your winning playbooks.
So executives or folks in a senior leader position, you’re probably there
because you did something right like you have done.
You know, you’ve you’ve hit some goals.
You’ve broke some records.
Share that proof point.
You know, 20% quarter over quarter growth, whatever.
And then share the step by step of how you got there.
That is like the new era of thought leadership.
People want receipts.. They want screenshots.
And if you’re willing to show that people will gravitate towards you
and they will view you as someone who’s not BSing them, right?
So there’s a lot of folks who just say things on the internet.
That’s not new.
The other one is industry commentary.
So, one example is. I have a CEO who sells to CFOs,
and what we do is we look through the news,
and if she sees a headline that grabs our attention,
we just talk through it for a few minutes.
And one that got her like 500,000 views was her just screenshotting the,
news article that Salesforce just hired a COFO.
No typo.
That’s a chief operating and financial officer.
And she was like,. I’ve never seen this before.
And so I was like, tell me more.
And so her just commenting on a couple sentences and then what
that screenshot did, did a great job getting her views and a great,
great comments of other finance leaders, you know, giving their opinion,
which is what you want.. You want a conversation.
And then the third one is vulnerable moments or hard learned lessons.
I’ll run with the same CEO.
She shared that she’d bombed her
first board meeting, and I was like, tell me more.
Tell me everything.
And those are the posts where she shared these little moments of,
hey, I thought I was going to do well by doing X.
I showed it to the board meeting or I talked to my co-founder.
Things went sideways.
Here’s why it went sideways and here’s what
I should have done instead, or what I do instead now.
And so when you mix in those three things, you’re both sharing.
Hey, true thought leadership.
You know how to do something.
You’re sharing kind of cautionary tales and vulnerable moments of what not to do.
And you’re staying super relevant
by commenting and sharing your opinion on the things going on in your industry.
I love that example, Devin.
Specifically because, you know, sometimes you see a new acronym,
especially as a marketer, because it’s like acronyms every day.
And you’re thinking, oh, gosh,. I should know what that means.
And in that case, she’s like,
she basically said, hey,. I I’ve not heard this before.
Here’s what I’m thinking about it.
And it sounds like that vulnerability that, you know, I don’t know everything.
I’m taken off guard occasionally to really resonated with people.
It does.
It really does.
And it’s funny because I don’t know her world that well.
So when we work together, me kind of playing rookie helps
because I looked at the headline and thought, well,
you thought I was like, this sounds kind of like nonsense.
Like, okay, we’re just making up new titles today.
And she’s like, no, no, no, this could mean something different.
She read the article and she’s like,
oh no, I’m actually really interested in this.
And so
when you also sense either for yourself or if you’re working with an executive,
like their eyebrows move up or you hear the passion in their voice,
that is a signal of something that you should definitely lean into.
Focus on, you know, kind of let that train of thought, happen.
Write all of it down.
And then you can kind of form it into into something folks want to read.
How do you convince busy, busy C-suite executives?
Like, in this case, you’re talking about a CEO, that there’s value in posting
regularly on LinkedIn and that they need to commit the time
and the energy to do it because it feels like
even if you’re giving them a helping hand, which is what you’re doing,
it feels like they have 8000 other things to do before they prioritize it.
So I’m lucky that
if folks come to me, they probably been following my LinkedIn content.
And so they’re already pretty bought in.
And it’s usually folks who have been wanting to do it but don’t know how.
Or it’s kind of like, you know, how I’m going to get to the gym next month
and you just haven’t gotten to it, right?. And it’s all good.
I’m the same guy for both the gym and LinkedIn sometimes.
But the way that I’ve helped CMOs
nudge their CEO over the fence is using loss aversion.
So it’s usually saying, you know, we’re kind of in a conversation
and it’s like, hey, do you notice your competitors on LinkedIn?
And you’re usually like, oh yeah.
So yeah, you just made the same face.
It’s like, you’re that one person that’s kind of kicking our.
But a little bit.
I’m like, if you don’t start now, imagine how painful thinking of that person’s
going to be in a year
because they’re they’re at it and they’re doing it
and they’re going to steal all the attention on the feed
from your market because you just don’t want to put in the work.
Now, I’m being a little harsh
to prove my point here, and obviously you can pick your tone.
The other part is, though, you do also need to minimize the lift
or the perceived lift.
And so that’s why I say, hey, look, you’re going to give me four hours a month
and four hours a month.
We are going to see results within 90 days.
And you’re going to get so excited
that you’re going to want more time, and you’re going to want to scale
this thing like that’s what’s going to happen.
And so then they get excited, right?
So you kind of want to like tell them what’s at stake,
you know, and then also just say, hey, look it’s actually not that hard.
Here’s what it’s going to look like.
Which with me is like,
you know, we
you know, we do quote unquote
interview or conversations twice a month for 30 minutes.
And then I, push slash make them do some revisions
of each post because you want their, one, you want their tone.
Because I tell them all the time,. I’m not you.
I will never sound exactly like you.
And, two, you want them to have some skin in the game?
You want them to feel that they have ownership
and they’re co-creating this content not just to get it out the door,
but when something pops off, you want them to feel good, right?
You want them to feel part of the team, not just kind of lending their name
or giving you the keys to the LinkedIn account.
I think that last part is super important because.
Yeah, they they will feel a sense of pride.
I know officially LinkedIn says it does not favor in the algorithm
C-suite titles but it’s sort,. I sort of feel like it secretly does.
Do you have any opinion on that?
I don’t think the algorithm has it built in, to reward titles,
but I think what happens is that our brains
are the ones that actually like the titles.
Because when you see CEO, CMO, CFO posting something, we noticed two things.
One is instant credibility.
It is the, you know, it’s the highest ranking position at these companies.
And two, it’s scarcity.
Like, how often do you see a CFO or a CEO posting on LinkedIn?
It’s pretty rare.
So when you see it,
our ears kind of perk up and we’re like, oh, we’re getting some inside knowledge.
They’re sharing some great wisdom that’s probably really valuable.
And then when you add in video, it’s even more rare.
Like, you know, a CEO with credibility, something to say and is on video.
So I think that’s what draws us in a little bit more.
I could be wrong.. I don’t I don’t work at LinkedIn.
But yeah.
So that’s why I think is like. I also tell the C-suite folks I work with,
like, you’re going to get a boost compared to everybody else
just because you’re CEO, like you have it baked in.
You might as well take advantage of it.. All right.
Maybe one day we’ll break into LinkedIn headquarters
to see if we can discover the secret sauce together.
But, But, yeah, I do agree.. I feel like maybe.
Maybe it’s just mentally, we are, as browsers of LinkedIn,
are selecting and opting in to C-suite content,
which makes it seem like it’s a bit more ubiquitous.
I’ll I’ll share an example with that.
That CEO that sells to CFOs.
We’ve actually so we’ve been working together for five months.
She’s got about 6 million views on her content.
So she’s crushing it.
And we notice her top performing posts
include the CFO word, CFO title.
So she’s like, hey, as CFO or when I’m talking to CFOs,
those consistently outperform everything else.
So we use it sparingly, obviously.
But that phrase is like boardroom.
I think those are just again, those words of like,
oh, we’re getting insider access.
And so we’ve seen that we’ve seen that work.
Sure.
I mean, as an almost everybody aspirational C-suite.
So I feel like, yeah, you’re mentally picking up on those words.
I’d like to drill down a little bit tactically now and talk about,
the LinkedIn preference for kind of keeping you on the platform,
you know, versus a CTA that’s like,
hey, go read this article that I published and it’s off the platform.
I know I have personally seen extreme differences in posts
that pull you off of LinkedIn and post that keep you on LinkedIn,
but how do you manage that or walk that line?
Because you you want people engaging
with an article or a piece of research that’s not on LinkedIn.
So how do you kind of have that compromise?
Yeah. It’s a it’s a great point.
So one putting a link to inside your LinkedIn post
will drastically reduce your views for 99% of the time.
So I almost never do it.
It goes back to LinkedIn is a, social media platform now.
They want you to stay on their feed because they have advertisers, yada, yada.
So the algorithm definitely sees links.
And I’ve tested this over and over every couple months just to make sure.
And it’s definitely true.
So my recommendation first is to switch your thinking
on even needing the link at all.
So a great example working with the CEO.
A couple of weeks ago they had a different one.
They had a huge product launch come out and had a press release.
Now, a lot of companies go great, put a little bit
in the post and get people to that press release.
To which I said,
when we can write a better press release because press releases aren’t that good.
No offense to anyone writing them.
They’re all the same. They’re formulaic.. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, so I was like, why don’t we just take the core message?
That’s what you really want, CEO.
You want people to see these 2 or 3 main points.
You know what you launched, why you launched it, what it means for customers.
Right.. What’s usually the three kind of things.
So instead of like, just ignore the link and take the core message out
and let’s make the best LinkedIn posts,
get the best views on that message because that’s what you really want.
And then you can put by the way, for, you know, full press release in the comments.
And then you can, you know, make that a line.
Most people probably won’t click that because they already got the core message.
And so that’s why I try to coach people is like, focus on zero click content.
If you absolutely need to get someone to the link like it’s for an event or,
you know, a downloadable piece of, you know, content like thought leadership,
instead,. I would still say zero click content.
Make the post highly engaging, but make it a teaser, right?
So you can say, hey, if there’s ten stats that we just found
from this LinkedIn video research, give that
stat away, give the best one away, and then say there’s nine more.
And if the post is good,
people are going to sprint to that link and find it because they want
more of what you’re offering.
Yeah.. So it sounds like we’re prioritizing that.
I love that term. Dwell.
Dwell time on the platform.
Like keeping people in that walled garden.
So is it okay, in your opinion, to ask for a follow or a comment
in those ways where you’re, like, overtly encouraging engagement with a post or,
do you want that to be like more organic, where people think, oh,
I really like that. I’m going,. I’m going to follow or comment.
I think a follow me CTA is totally fine.
I wouldn’t use it all the time.
I also say like, don’t say DM me.
You know, if you want to talk about this topic
because you’re trying to sell to them all the time.
But yeah, occasionally. I think it’s totally fine.
Like, if you again, if you have a high value
winning playbook and then the last thing is like, P.S.
follow me for more tips on content strategy.
You’re just making it easier and you’ve probably earned the right for a CTA.
Same thing goes, if you don’t necessarily want to have a
like a hard CTA, like do a thing, you can just ask a question
which in a, in a way is also a CTA because you want engagement.
So I think it’s more about varying your CTAs.
And if you’re going to ask someone to download, you know, click,
you know, sign up for something, try to make it an earned CTA, like
make it the obvious next step and kind of earn that right.
So when they see the CTA, they’re like,
oh yeah, of course. I want to go see Val in person.
I love this post.. I’ve been following her for a while.
Or yeah, you know what?. I actually do want to follow her.
I’ll just click or, you know, click her profile and jump over there.
But again, you don’t have to like,. I don’t I don’t know if I’ve ever, someone
could search my 1400 LinkedIn post and see if I’ve ever said like, follow me.
I don’t know if I have.
I don’t think you have to.
Well, yeah.
It feels like if it’s truly authentic.. Right.
And people are engaging with it, that they would have that thought on their own.
That you wouldn’t need to overtly ask for it.
I guess that’s kind of what we’re going for.
Yeah, exactly.
But again,
no, if you’re posting a couple times a week, there’s
nothing wrong with throwing out a CTA to follow you. Subscribe.
All that said, nothing wrong with it.
So I feel like a theme for our talk today.
Devin is really just around, you know, a lot a lot of it is around authenticity.
So even if you’re getting help from someone or if you’re doing it
yourself, you really just want to show up as your true self
with a point of view and really just continually engage for the long game.
that’s my takeaway.
I love it. I’ve done my job today.
Awesome.
Devin, if people want to follow you or learn more about,
your newsletter, The Reeder where should they go? Yes.
Well I’ve said LinkedIn 100 times on this so you know you can find me there.
I do have a weekly newsletter called The Reeder newsletter.
And I also have a show called Reed Between the Lines.
On YouTube, if you want to watch, I interview
different, marketers, creators and entrepreneurs across the country.
And if you’re wondering, wow, he puts his name in all of his titles.
I’m a dad.
I love dad jokes and puns, and so but those are the only two.
I think everything else has unique names.
But yeah, that’s where you can find me.
I was going to say this is a man who doesn’t shy away from a pun, so I love it.
Never.
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us.
Like I said, we’ve had our eye on you for a while.
Was a pleasure to finally have you on the show.
Likewise. Thank you.
And thanks to all of you for tuning in to Closing Time.
Remember, you can click that link in the show notes
and get this episode delivered to your inbox.
We’ll see you next week.
me.
